I have heard some folks say that Pagans should be vegetarians since we claim to honor all life. Most of these statements have come directly from Vegetarian Pagans. Honoring life does not mean that we can't or shouldn't consume the meat of animals. I don't believe in animal cruelty and go out of my way and above my budget to buy animal products that are more respectful to the animal in question - such as cage free eggs and free range chicken. While I respect the Vegetarian life style I do not believe that it is a necessary choice in the eyes of the Goddess.
The religion of the Goddess is one of nature. In nature there is something called the food chain. Big animals eat little ones all the time. We are just fortunate enough to have the ability to be grateful for our food and respect the animal that it came from. This is more than the other creatures in the natural world can say. On the flip side we also have the ability to feel guilty about consuming another beings life, but I personally don't think it's a necessary emotion.
Nature (the only real bible the human race possesses) tells us that we need meat. We have big molars for shredding meat, and canines (passed down by our ape ancestors who also supplement their diets with meat) which we use to tear chicken from the drumstick. Our bodies require amino acids - some of which we can only find in meat.
Now, in saying all of those things I would like to specify that I do not believe we need to eat as much meat as we do in this country. It has been proven that all we really need is a portion the size of the palm of our hand once to twice a week. Cutting down on our consumption of meat, specifically cattle, can help save acres of forest a year. If there is less of a demand for meat products then there will not be a need for so many cows or the grazing lands creating by destroying forests.
So, human beings need meat, and as a person practicing a religion based on nature I see no problem with this. I do however see a problem with disrespect for the animals and inhumane treatment.
We're natural hunters so I don't mind hunting just as long as the animal is eaten and there are no trophies kept for the purpose of ego. That just makes me ill and seems like an act of complete disregard for the respect of the animal.
Below I have written a little Goddess prayer for meal times in order to show the reverence for life and the respect for the sacrifice of the animal.
Goddess, we thank you for the sacrifice of your plant and animal children whose lives were taken to provide us with this meal. We honor their spirits and will forever carry a piece of their memory within us. In reverence of life we feed our bodies and accept your blessings. So mote it be.
16 comments:
What you written here is very much along the lines of what I believe and have been unable to put into words myself. I do see that eating meat is a natural part of our place in the food chain, but I agree, we need to be respectful to the animals who are sacrificed in order to sustain us. (and plants as well!)
There is such an abundance of food in our society nowadays that we have forgotten it was not always this easy, and we've fogotten to give thanks. Thanks for the reminder.
I agree with Turtleheart's statement regarding the abundance of food in our society. It reminds me of a conversation that I had with a neighbor recently.
We were discussing vegetarianism, and how we both had been vegetarians before. She told me that she was a vegetarian/vegan until she had gone to Cuba to distribute medical supplies. She mentioned that most meals in Cuba includes pork because that is sometimes all they have available to them.
She said that she came to the realization that people in our country have so many options that we are able to choose our lifestyles while people of other countries may not have that option. While that is not necessarily bad that we have the ability to choose, she said that she came to the conclusion that, for her, she had been trying to make a political statement with what she had been eating. After her experinece in Cuba, she said that it seemed silly to continue to refuse meat.
I believe that it is an individual's decision and that it shouldn't be pushed on anyone. I see this kind of attitude of "Pagans should be/do/etc....." as similar to the attitude of some Christians who dictate what people should be/do/believe and find it sad. I thought that was what most people were trying to get away from.....
Thanks, Grian, for writting this.
Thank you both for your comments. I think you're both very right. There is a ton of food to go around in our society, a lot of which gets wasted.
I can't even begin to count the times I have felt guilt ridden over a meal I couldn't finish, realizing that there are so many out there who would give their eyes to have the food I had to throw away. These days I take the leftovers out to my backyard - at least the vegetable products. I figure if I have no room left in my stomach for it, perhaps the woodchucks, dear, chipmunks, squirrels, birds, etc. can find some nourishment in it.
I'm also working on keeping leftovers in the fridge and actually eating them - in addition to preparing less food at one time. Now I just have to get hubby to cut down on his meat consumption. I swear he thinks he'll waste away if he doesn't have meat at every meal.
Thanks again to both of you - for commenting and for visiting.
While I respect all your opinions, I, as a pagan, strongly believe that the single, solid, sincerest way I can show genuine respect to all my fellow sentient creatures is to stop eating them. I have been vegetarian for 10 years, and vegan for 4 years.
I could have been a lacto-ovo, or consume, as you said, cage free eggs and free range chicken, but I can't be too sure. It's also a question of ethics to me, we all know how animals are "processed" in modern farms :(
Of course, I can't claim to be 100% vegan, its almost impossible to avoid it, (such as gel capsules in medicines), personally, I refrain as much as I can as long as it's unnecessary to my survival, and I won't die the next minute, and there are alternatives.
My nutritionist told me I needed to take lots of supplements to prevent imbalance though. You pointed that out, I get that :) and that's what I do. I have yet to find other sources of Amino acids, even if not fortified :(
I think it would be wonderful if there was some way to go back to a hunter-gatherer society where we can be sure that the animals we consume are treated with respect. Unfortunately, that is almost impossible these days. Even if we could purchase our own livestock and butcher it ourselves - that would be better. But this would require a lot of money and preparation that many just don't have the means to provide.
I respect your dedication, and though I understand your reasons, I don't agree that not eating animals is the equivalent to showing them respect. I believe death is as much a part of life as birth and should not necessarily be seen as a horrific event.
For the sake of argument (and playing devil's advocate) how do we know that plants are not sentient? I know that basic science tells us that the brain is required for sentience, but why couldn't the root system be seen as something similar to a brain? It's a complex structure of chemicals and chemical producing systems much like a brain. The human brain itself even possesses root like patterns of neurons and synapses. It's just a thought, albeit a very strange one that is in no way proven by science or rational thought. I try to think outside the box A LOT! LOL
I think it's wonderful that we can share a dialogue on a topic that we disagree upon. Please don't think I am trying to convert you to being an omnivore. I only enjoy a good debate and a sharing of ideas. Thank you for your sincere words. I look forward to many more conversations.
I am a vegetarian and have been for more than 20 years I am also a pagan. Everything has to eat to survive but you don't have to eat from the animal kingdom. That is my personal belief and I am absolutely committed to it. I think it is either okay to eat all animals (including cats and dogs) or no animals. Obviously, for me it's NO animals. But just like with choices of faith/religion/spirituality it is each person's own decision. I never bother anyone about what they choose to eat. I respect their right to eat what they want.
What I would like to point out though is that things like clear cutting the rain forest to grow cattle for fast food markets should probably be an afront to any pagan. And the Goddess spoke saying, "I hope one day my children will sacrifice this lovely rain forest so that there can be fast food restaurants on every corner in America" hmmmm.
If we weren't growing cows, etc. for slaughter, there would be a much greater yield of food crops. What about those 30,000 children who die everyday, one every 3 seconds, of extreme poverty. No, I don't think being vegetarian will fix that whole problem - but it might help provide more food.
Eat what you want to eat but remember that your choices have an impact.
I agree with you about the rain forest and cattle issue. For this reason alone I don't eat meat every day. I try to limit it to once or twice a week.
My biggest reason for being an omnivore (I hate being called a carnivore. I eat veggies too.) is that I believe it's natural. Nature created human beings to eat meat. In fact, it's one of the things they say may have increased our brain size in the earlier hominid stages. Our bodies need certain amino acids that meat provides. Our teeth are made to shred meat. Evolutionary science tells us that we are intended to have meat as a part of our diet.
I trust nature because it's the one thing that is undoubtedly given to us by Goddess. What nature teaches I take as lessons from Her.
I'm sorry but this just isn't quite true.
The jaws of carnivores move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow it whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, a movement that allows them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores, human back molars are flat and allow the grinding of fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars. If humans had been meant to eat meat, they would have the sharp teeth and claws of carnivores. Instead, their jaw structure, flat molars, and lack of claws indicate that they are best suited for a plant-based diet.
After using their sharp claws and teeth to capture and kill their prey, carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to do most of the digestive work. The stomach acid of carnivores actually plays a dual role-besides breaking down flesh, the acid also kills the dangerous bacteria that would otherwise sicken or kill the meat-eater.
Besides the physical aspect. You just cannot "respect" life by eating it, even if you throw a prayer at it. It's like torturing a human being and then saying "Dear Goddess, though I did not need to do this...I did it anyways because I wanted to, I know you're cool with it though because I respect people right?"
It just doesn't work that way. Animals raised for food are breed in massive factory farms living in darkness and strewn in their own filth for their entire lives. When its time for slaughter, many of them have their throats slit and painfully bleed to death while fully conscious. Respectful? I would venture to say not.
Since humans do not need meat to survive (and major studies have shown that our bodys are far better off without heart disease, cholesterol, and obesity that comes with flesh-based diets), we do it out of a taste for blood and violence. And I'm sorry but I don't think any loving Goddess would look at a modern factory farm say say "It's all good here".
Though I could go on (but I wont) endlessly, I will end with the simple point that meat consumption is currently the #1 cause of global warming. I was under the impression that most of us Pagans were supposed to respect the Earth?
Please consider truly respecting life by not destroying it. I hope this didn't come across as rude. You maybe just didn't know. But as Pagans, we have a responsibility to learn from new knowledge and experiences. I hope you make the connection.
Blessings
David
Wow. Okay. Where to start? Firstly, I would say your comment came off as quite condescending to say the least. People can have other opinions than your's and it's okay. Really, that's possible.
Now... I'm neither herbavore nor carnavore but omnivore; as most humans who choose to live within the laws of nature are. Now I will counter your points with points of my own.
Our molars: yes they are suited for a vegetable diet - or should I say a mostly vegetable diet, not unlike our relatives the great apes. They also have similar teeth though their incisors are much bigger. Ours have evolved over time as have our jars in order to become smaller, thus making room for a bigger brain case. But, none of that would have happened in the first place if not for the building blocks of amino acids (that are found in meat - some only found in meat) that allowed our brains to evolve at all. By the way, apes eat meat too but not that often. And they don't have claws either.
Do we eat too much meat? Yes. There is no reason to eat as much as we do, often at every meal. Are we meant to never eat meat? No. No we are not.
Even Tibetan Buddhists (though not the monks or nuns as I understand it) suppliment their diets with meat due to evidence of malnutrition without it. You see they don't have access to dietary suppliments - which are completely unnatural to begin with. If it's not found in that form in the natural world then it is unnatural. Just because we've come to a point in science where we can sustain our nutrition without meat consumption doesn't mean nature intended it that way.
And to presume that I (and other omnivore humans) only eat meat out of a taste for blood and violence is one of the most cynical outlooks on the human race I have ever heard.
Slaughter houses suck and I'm sure the Goddess thinks so too. (Making snide remarks about the Goddess and my religious beliefs was pretty messed up by the way.) I hope there are advances in that business that make things more humane. We weren't intended to get our food from grocery stores either, but hunting is not something everyone can do these days.
Basically, the food chain is part of the natural world. Screw up the food chain and you ruin eco-systems. Whether we like it or not we are part of the ecosystem and a sudden shift in our diets could cause a lovely (sarcasm) butterfly effect that could leave the balance of everything more out of whack then it is at present.
As Pagans we have a responsibility to realize we are part of nature and no more removed from it and its laws than any other animal. I hope you make the connection.
Pagans or anyone with a kind heart, a clear and healthy mind, a healthy body, and a true love of Goddess/Earth/Universe would be wise and honorable to choose Veganism (NO animal products Period)!!!
Eating the flesh from the corpse of a once living being is not Goddess worthy!
Please go to PETA's website, to the Viva! USA website, and look up even more sites on animal cruelty. You will find that free range is a myth falsely promoting animal kindness but really covering for egregious animal cruelty. Free range is as cruel as factory farming. Please read about factory farming. Please watch the PETA undercover videos "Meat Your Meat," "The Free Range Myth," and many, many more.
There is an abundance of healthy, delicious foods that grow from our great Mother's body that do not cut short another living being's life; and do so in the cruelest ways possible. These dear animals also born of Mother Earth, who also want to live and love, who think and feel, are tortured and suffer for their whole unnaturally shortened lives, then they are brutally and torturously murdered. They die slow and agonizing deaths. This does not promote love, justice, or Goddess.
Who of us has the natural right to say animals are here for us to eat and consume for other products? Because we have been wrongfully conditioned to eat the flesh of these animal corpses some of us just assume that it is our natural human right. How misguided, patriarchal, and ugly.
I have learned a lot in this past year. I now understand how we have been blindly led to believe that these behaviors are natural to us. This is so incorrect.
This is just another lie we must work through just like the other lies by the patriarchy for which we all suffer.
***** So, for example, when you eat hamburger you are consuming the corpse flesh and other ground parts of ruined and used up dairy cows... Mother cows that were taken from their Mothers as calves having never tsted or benefited from their own Mother's milk, as that is stolen for humans. These calves were artificially inseminated, forced to conceive only to have their calves stolen from them, they cry and cry, (yes, cows cry) for their babies, for their Mamas, but to no avail. These babies are either brutally murdered immediately or tortured and starved for "veal" if males, or forced to have babies, and so on... in a vicious cycle all ending in a torturous death. It is a death they can't avoid, a gruesome death after a sad and painful life, it is a death they can hear and smell while waiting in the long metal death gates... hearing and seeing those going before them dying... and having no way out. They cannot speak of their sufferings. They have no voice in the public. They have no choice. Goddess is NOT about "no choice" She is NOT about "no freedom". Goddess is about "Choice and Freedom"! Where is their choice in this, Where is their freedom? We must not be their captor, their murderers, their predators. We need to be their voice.
This does not even touch on the cruelty that goes on, for dairy cows for meat, milk, clothes..., veal cows, pigs, geese, ducks, chickens for meat & eggs, turkeys, sheep, horses, rabbits, fish, and the list goes on and on.
A true child of Goddess will want to investigate further. A stop, not an acceptance or participation, must come to these vile and detestable acts.
This also does not cover how unbelievably unhealthy it is for our bodies and minds to consume animals, for may different, factual, and frightening reasons. One simply must research this if one is concerned for their and their family's health. It's deadly for us! This is a well researched though well concealed fact.
For instance... all milk contains pus, blood, antibiotics, some has growth hormones, the suffering of the animal that comes through, whatever disease they have, and more, and it causes osteoporosis, rather than fights it, and is strongly linked to children's type 1 diabetes. This is just the tip of the iceberg - milksucks.com has much info too.
If one can eat the flesh and wear the flesh of a dead animal then one can and should be able to know how that being suffered and died. Otherwise one is living a lie.
Eating meat is not a natural part of the food chain for humans! We are not naturally physically equipped to "one on one" with our bare hands bring down an animal. We are not physically made to eat our "fresh kill". We must have unfair advantages against the prey. We must cook the flesh of these corpses then we must tenderize, cook, and flavor their flesh before we can begin to consume it. We must wash our hands and utensils thoroughly lest we get ill or die from contamination. This is not natural in the food chain!
Unless you can and do smell (uncooked and alive) your animal prey, and when hungry, go and catch, kill with your bare hands & teeth, and then eat your fresh kill "as is" (no gutting, no skinning, no cooking, added flavor, or using utensils), as well as take it immediately to your babies for their nourishment, you cannot correctly claim that eating meat is part of the natural food chain for humans. This is my strong belief.
We humans also have the ability to think beyond the average animal and deeply know right from wrong; though we now have to remove many layers of blinders from patriarchal brainwashing/deadening. But the hope is that Goddess is! So, we can do this and many of us have thanks to Her and the help she has provided through others as well as our selves.
Grains, vegetables, fruit, legumes, herbs, and more give us all we need and they can all be eaten without purposeful harm to our animal sisters and brothers.
But you will see it however it is convenient for you or just maybe you will look a little farther, search a little deeper, try a little harder, and care a whole lot more.
We don't know everything, even if we can write about Goddess quite nicely. There is always more for us to learn. Some of it hurts for a while too, but then it turns and somehow changes and it is magickally transformed into real freedom, and often, peace of mind, body, and soul; like for me knowing that my nourishment comes from my Mother's body first hand and not second hand through the corpse flesh of a long suffering creature who "caused no harm!"
I know, I lived and ate the lie that was fed to me throughout my life until Goddess opened my eyes to the truth. If you dare to go to these sites and read, watch and care, you will never be the same.
The questions are, are you ready and willing to face the truth? Are you ready to have a complete change of life? Are you able to see past self satisfaction, and self rightness of where you are right now?
I believe Goddess/Earth wants us to save her animals. She cared just as much to create them as she did to create us. So who among us has the right to say otherwise or to propagate it by freely choosing to kill them or freely choosing to eat them pre-killed and nicely pre-packaged by others?
Being a true lover, follower/leader, and worshipper of Earth of Goddess and Her ways one must surely not condone or promote eating the flesh of other living beings, most especially in our society where it is rendered so cruelly (including free range) and evilly!
RavenStar
PS
My previous comment is intended for those of us who can do differently. For those of us that have the options to do differently and for those of us who can research and find these informations and then act on them.
If one has the opportunity to become more enlightened but does nothing then the blame lays on them.
If one has no way to become enlightened about these things, has no opportunity to do so, and further, no means to make a necessary change, then one is hardly responsible.
But for those of us who have the ability and opportunity to hear, read, listen, search, and write, there is no legitimate excuse to remain part of the animal cruelty problem, to remain part of the lie of what is "natural" for us as humans.
Okay, you've totally caught me in a mood so please try not to take my comments personally.
Goddess is all about NATURE! The food chain is NATURAL!
Big animals eat little ones. It's natural law. You can not pick and choose which natural laws you want to follow. You are part of nature and that's that.
Veganism is simply unhealthy. For as many studies you can show me that says it's good for you I will find twice as many studies that show it's not.
Wake up and stop pretending you're not an earthling who is subject to the laws and methods of nature.
It may have been more natural to eat meat and game when food wasn't as readily available as it is today. If we are going to evolve as a society, if humans beings are going to make an evolutionary leap that is more gentle, meat should be something eaten on rare occasions, if not eliminated from the diet. Look at the facts. Do some reading instead of falling back on your good ol' "food chain" assumption. we are no longer cave men and have the intelligence, safe surroundings, and ability to conscious choices. Look up the work AHIMSA. Practice non-violence. Remember that when cows are killed for their meat---even the happiest free range cows, their bodies are hung upside down and drained of blood.
I have known for a very long time that eating meat is very very wrong. I appreciate that in many countries they may have little option, yet I think with some thought and effort they could avoid eating meat. The worst problem with eating meat is that so few people then have respect for animals, stories of cruelty both in and out of the meat trade are rife and well-known. People see them as objects to use with no thought or care for animal's fear or pain. It is wrong to kill and take an animals life for pleasure or to prolong your own life - how can you be so arrogant as to consider your life more important than theirs? Survival if an animal were to attack you is one thing, but to deliberately harvest creatures for food is abuse of an animals freedom and right to life. I have been vegetarian and as close to vegan as I can manage for over 40 years. I am healthier for it and know I made the right decision not to cause harm to any of my fellow creatures.
You don't need meat to live (some people live off of the sun and others air.) There are plants out there that supply the things people think only meat has. 18 amino acids can be found in goji berries, 13% of goji berries are protien. Inca berries have B12 and are 16% protien. Marine Phytoplankton contains essential fatty acids omega 3, 6, 7, 9.
And the list can go on..
I can't see how eating meat would be ok as a pagan. The planet might be hurt from animal agriculture since 18% of green house gasses are from animals raised (not grown) for their meat. 13% is from cars, trucks, planes. The rainforest is being cut down to make more room for feed lots. Animals are slaughtered horror movie style. You can feed so many more people on a plant based diet then an animal based one. We have more of a herbivore digestive system. We have long digestive tracts likes cows. Most plants won't die since you only use parts of them and they can grow back. Do you know how much of the animal is acutally used? There is just too much to write about here... There is so much behind the slaughterhouse wall that people don't know... BTW, cage-free, organic, and free-range may not be what you think.
Instead of spewing veggie propaganda from website's such as Peta, some of you should start reading books about paleolithic nutrition. The only reason you think like you do is because man had a huge supply of protein and fat. There is no essential carbohydrate or fiber. All fiber is UNDIGESTIBLE plant matter. Your body has to break down the cell wall of the plant to get nutrition out of it. An animal cell has no wall and is thus the easiest thing to digest.
Some of you vegetarians should read a bit about the experiences of ex-vegheads and see that a lot of stuff you believe are harmful myths.
The only reason you are a vegan or vegetarian is because you don't appreciate meat for what it is. It is a concentrated energy source that has all the necessary nutrients man needs. It is the most important food, the most highly prized of all foods. All cultures prize meat. Grains and legumes are the food of the peasents for a reason. They are second class protein. If a poor woman in an african village has the choice between goat meat and a pot of rice and beans, the choice is simple, goat meat. It is naive of vegetarians to think that the woman is doing this out of lack of knowledge of what's good for her. On the contrary, women all over the world prepare meat dishes for their family because they know it is important. These are wise traditions.
I live on a diet of vegetarians, concentrated vegetables if you like. I have never felt better in my life.
No more depression, anti-social beheviour, more energy, less eczema, better hair and nails.
Try meat. It's what's for dinner.
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